This is another interview from the “Successful Success” series with graduates of the UX/UI Legend course. Stories of a real path to success, about the real life, problems, and joys of designers.
Katia Boyko quickly started her freelance career on Upwork, sending 150 applications in 3 weeks after the UX/UI Legend course. It paid off. In this interview, Katia will share her experience as a successful freelancer working for an agency in the United States and as a freelance mentor at WAYUP. She will talk about earnings, regular clients, and advice for beginners.
All the heroes of the column started their journey with the FREE course “Web Designer: Explosive Start” - get started too!
About the current state of affairs
Hello, Katyusha. We're in a column called “Successful Success”. The idea is to look at your results as a designer and show others what a real life success story can look like. Because many beginners are not quite sure how to get there. Actually, the purpose of this interview is to reveal your path and your view of work to our readers so that they can draw conclusions and see what they need to do now or how to change their attitude to something. Because the result is primarily about your qualities as a person, and to a lesser extent about your hard skills.
Hello. I'm very happy to talk about this topic, to open a certain screen, maybe how I see it and what I went through. I am ready to share my insights or advice, my experience.
This is what we need, maximum sincerity and transparency. Look - imagine that you have one minute to briefly tell me about where you are now. I mean your level, who you work with. And then we'll talk about where you started, how it went.
So. I'm currently working as a UX/UI designer with a digital marketing company in New York. We have been working for six or seven months now. It's not exactly a regular job in a company, as we imagine it - at certain hours or with a specific workload. I would say it's more like a freelance job, but I work with a company, with one client. I usually work on designing websites for various e-commerce stores. Sometimes I do some mini-design tasks when they come up. This is what it is now.
So they pay you on a project basis for a certain amount of work or is it a salary?
No, it's not a salary, that's why I said it's freelance. We agreed to pay by the page. I set the amount and they agreed to it. If the result suddenly exceeds their expectations, they add some bonuses.
Yeah, that's cool. The agency is from New York. Do you cooperate with anyone there or how do you get a task?
I work with a manager who is responsible for projects, design, and development. I'm actually in constant contact with him, clarifying anything. It's like this.
How much does Katya earn per page?
You mentioned that you have a rate per page. Can we find out how much exactly?
Yes, you can. First, I'll tell you where I started, because working with them, I even grew a little bit in the valuation of my page. I found them on Upwork, and then we started working together separately. It was $250 per page at first, and now it's $350.
So, what do we mean by a page? Is it a landing page or how many sections?
By the way, this is not so important in my version, because whatever the page is, the price is the same. I'm really grateful and happy that I found people with whom I'm on the same page, who really like the style and vision of how I design. And they don't care how many sections, how big the page is. It doesn't matter if it's just a mini Contact us page or a Home Page.
So it's that much for any page?
Yes, this is an unusual case.
Yeah, it's cool. I know such cases, it's not uncommon. I mean, not every other contractor gives you that kind of payment, usually they still count sections. But it does happen. This signals that they have a very good rating and earn well. And this difference between the cost of living in the US and in Ukraine is actually to our advantage. And it works to their advantage.
There is another uncomfortable question. How many pages do you make in a month on average?
It's very difficult to really answer this question, because there is no clear workload per month or per week. On average, I've even counted - about ten pages.
So you can earn an average of $3,500 a month?
Yes.
Very cool, congratulations.
How and when it all started
Let's remember how it all started. How many years ago and how did your journey begin, at what point did WAYUP appear on this path?
Yeah, well, I'll start with the time when I started thinking about design and why it caught fire in me. Because I'm a philologist by profession and it doesn't have much to do with visuals and IT, especially. I have always liked to pay attention to packaging, branding, all the beauty that people create. I didn't understand why and who does it at all. That's why I first became interested in graphic design and thought about moving in that direction. But I came across a course, it was not called “UX/UI legend” back then, but “Web designer: a lucky ticket to Thailand”. It was about two years ago. Now we can say that my work experience is a year and three months, I calculated it on purpose.
I thought about it for a long time, took a free course at first to get acquainted, and realized that it was not so difficult for me. I've loved drawing since high school, and it was the construction of website pages that became interesting and understandable to me. I'm a person of clarity, not a person of chaos. I decided to continue my studies in the next year. By the way, I didn't finish it. And there are such success stories. But I took an additional course on Upwork and freelancing seriously, which gave me a lot.
A note: there was a time when we gave an Upwork course after completing the course “Web Designer: A Lucky Ticket to Thailand”. Now it has transformed into the new WAYUP CAMP. We also guarantee clients and jobs for our students after completing the UX/UI Legend course.
Yes, this is my personal recommendation because I worked there as a mentor. This is a separate page of our cooperation.
I am very grateful for this Upwork course, it was detailed and covered many important key points that you need to know. Both about the platform and about time management in general, about communication with clients. These are the soft skills that help you learn how to sell your services. Because this is the most important thing. The fact that you just have a hard skill, you can just have it and live with it, not earn it.
So about two years ago you took a course and didn't complete it. Why?
I was going through a difficult period with the university at the time. I remember that I just didn't fit into the time frame. I think I completed half of the course, and then I had to complete the other half without the support of a mentor. That is, I completed it, but on my own.
But that's another story. It happens, I have examples of people who have ambitions, but the circumstances are such that they have to complete the course on their own. And they often even outperform those who completed it with a mentor.
What was it like to start on Upwork?
After the course, you joined Upwork. What was it like? Remember your state, your thoughts at the time when your first client appeared, what was he like?
So, after completing this Upwork course, about a month passed. I started sending applications. It was a little bit chaotic. Let's just say that it was a difficult time in Ukraine, with blackouts and shelling. That's when I came to you for mentoring. I was working with the Center for Resilience.
There were a lot of emotions then, in fact. And there was this unbreakable Katia who was trying to find the slightest opportunity to work and have electricity and the Internet to fulfill her dream of finding her first client and really feeling like a web designer. Because I had this thing: when I was studying and graduating, I didn't feel like a web designer. It wasn't until I got my first client and closed it that I felt what it was like.
It's true, you really need feedback from the reality that you can do something. You can't prove it to yourself.
I submitted about 150-180 applications within three weeks.
That's right, friends! 150 in three weeks. Not 15.
Yes, this is very important. You taught me this and I listened to you. Constancy and discipline are very important when looking for your first client. I did my best, I didn't know if and when the result would be. I felt like I was hitting a wall. But a miracle happened: I received feedback. My first client was very cool, like everyone else's first clients, probably.
Not everyone is like that, it happens differently.
Well, everyone has their own situation.
Yes, it was a difficult time, I was doing my first project, it was a redesign of one page of an e-commerce store. I did it at the Invincibility Center in the firehouse all night. I remember that the deadlines were very tight, the client was kind of good, but a little weird. But I got very good feedback. The client said afterwards: “You put good feelings into your work design”. The first feedback on Upwork was not just “I like your job” or “I can recommend you”, but four or five lines long. That's why it was my very nice first Big Success.
How much money for how long?
I completed the project in about a week, because it was difficult with the terms and conditions, which the clients understood in principle. This page cost $75, but I was paid with a $100 bonus.
It may seem that $100 for a week is not much. But let's remember Katrina's current state.
In fact, I didn't think so, I knew that I needed to gain momentum, speed and just grow in the value of my work. I didn't expect it to be like this forever.
That's right, you're good in that sense. The first 100 bucks and the feeling that you are now a real designer confirmed it.
They also paid me an extra $25. Wow, I'm a better designer for $25 than I thought I was.
4 new clients in 2 weeks: how?
What happened next? Second client, third client?
Over the next few weeks, I actually had a combo of four clients. One of them was a mini-graphic design agency where I worked for $10 an hour and my brain was just on fire. It was very, very chaotic and I tried to combine these four projects. But I calculated that in 2.5 months after completing the course, I paid off the entire cost of my studies, which I was also very proud of. And it was 2 months of blackout, a very difficult period.
You mentioned four clients within two weeks.
Yes, they seemed to respond faster. I continued to send applications at the same pace, to keep the discipline I had accustomed myself to. During these two weeks, I sent about 100 applications for sure.
It must have been scary for you to buy connections every time?
I was confident and believed that everything would pay off.
That's right. It hurts when you buy the connectors. But it is true that you need to give something for the result in the future. And give not only money, but also your faith, your inspiration, your time. You need to invest in this and not expect it to pay off in the first week or month, even.
That is, three weeks, the first client. Of course, you have zero reviews, so it's hard for people to believe in you. One did, and then four clients in two weeks. How do you explain to yourself why it happened so quickly?
You see, these were not clients who responded only to new applications. There are those who respond after a month or a few weeks. So, it was a snowball effect of what we had sent that worked at one point. Sending more is the key.
How Katya was dumped by a developer + burnout
Okay, so in 2.5 months you recoup the cost of the course and then get a steady stream of clients from Upwork?
While working with my first client, I met a developer from Ukraine on Upwork. We tried to cooperate, and he even wanted to set up an agency. We worked together for some time, but unfortunately, there are no failures here. And everyone has to go through this experience. He dumped me. I can't say that it was for a large sum, but it was my job. If you work hard and give your all, it's a bit sad when you are dumped like that. But I believe that we need to go through any experience that we are given in order to learn to draw conclusions and act a little wiser in the future.
Then I experienced burnout. In fact, all the first 5-6 months of very active work exhausted me, even though they were positive emotions. I had a burnout for a month or two. And I can't say that it was professional, but more emotional. I needed time to recover. Although it all sounds a little strange, because at that time I received the TOP rated badge, for which I worked very hard.
How many reviews did you have at that time?
Maybe four or five, not many. That is, the minimum required. And I was immediately given this badge, I was happy and excited, and then I needed a little rest. I needed a break and inspiration. There was a moment when I was already coming back from this burnout because I realized that I needed to act and develop. I wanted to continue working with clients on the same projects.
After these two months, I started actively sending applications again, and I got a project from the client I'm working with now. They really liked the way I give myself, because it's as if after a long rest you seem to burst back into the project with new inspiration and strength.
The project has taken off very well, and I'm still doing some editing on it. And it's such a great happiness to see how the developer has implemented it beautifully and it really works. I'm told that we get a lot of compliments on the design. This motivates me a lot now and continues to inspire me to work with them.
Practical knowledge
I wanted to ask you about your first encounter with real-world UX/UI tasks and your learning process. Was it difficult for you or did you notice any problems with the transition from theory to practice?
Actually, I've thought about it many times. At the very beginning, while studying at WAYUP, I realized that it was cool, but for some reason I had the impression that I would need to study something else after the first orders. It's harder to develop more, to comprehend something new. For some reason, I had such an attitude in my head. But now, working with clients, I realize that this knowledge, this base, is the most important thing. In principle, nothing else is super complicated.
Of course, you continue to learn while working. You are constantly googling something, looking for some information specifically for individual tasks or projects. But I am really very grateful for what I learned at WAYUP. Because it's all very valuable, practical, and necessary. No water, no unnecessary information, as is often the case in Instagram rills or elsewhere.
Moreover, it's about communication. There was a time when I was working with a client, and he chose me just to talk to me, to take a call. He told me clearly why he chose me among 50 applications from different freelancers. He emphasized that I offered a clear way to solve his problem. From the very beginning, he wrote down what he needed, told me about his business in a few words. Based on this information, I built my application not as a template, but specifically for his text. And this is what they teach at WAYUP. It was as if a tick appeared in my head: this knowledge was useful, it really works.
Yes, it is important to step into the shoes of the client, to see how they wrote the application. You can see how they feel about the project and what they expect. This way you can create the best text for the client. And you should already have a decision from them.
I'd like to emphasize one more thing. When you need to send a really large number of applications to keep up the pace, find new clients, it becomes difficult to analyze each project and delve into each story. Therefore, you need to be able to analyze the texts of these applications very carefully and quickly. Perhaps you can create templates for different solutions to different types of requests.
This is very important. With experience, you realize that freelance clients can be roughly divided into 10 categories. They have 10 typical problems and you know what solution to offer. The thing is, some people take six months to send their first 150 applications. And if you do it in three weeks, like Katya, your six-month experience will fit into three weeks. Actually, it's not so much your hard skills as your perseverance that determines your fate in the profession. And every time in Successful Success, we see not how someone found a magic button, but maximum diligence. Not everyone has the inspiration to reach that point.
Why freelancing?
You are currently working with this agency as a part-time freelancer. Tell me, is freelancing a bit of an accident, because it was offered to you as a course after graduation, or was it your conscious choice?
I have already worked on a freelance basis once. It wasn't design at all, I was an English tutor. Of course, I set my own schedule, and I was fascinated by freelancing. It was an opportunity to live life when you want and not depend on a place. For me, as a night owl, getting up in the morning is just torture. And now I don't suffer like that. That's why I was very attracted to the opportunity to work when I feel comfortable.
How do you explain this problem for yourself, that freelancing is unstable?
This is a very complicated question, I have thought about it many times, because this instability sometimes makes me anxious. But I realize that this is due to my inaction. As much as you act, you get as much as you act. That is, it is a kind of law of the universe - as much as you give, as much comes to you. There is something in this. That's why freedom is more valuable than instability. And instability can be managed.
I actually agree with you very much. If you are looking for extraordinary results for yourself, more than 20,000 UAH per month, you need to do extraordinary things, different from the majority. This is the plot of the book, this is the plot of an interesting life. And it's great when you not only observe this, but you can create such a plot around yourself and become a character that you will have something to tell your grandchildren about. If you strive for more, it is impossible to get more without the factor of instability. There is stability only in stagnation.
Top tips from an Upwork mentor
You were an Upwork mentor at WAYUP CAMP. Do you have any advice for newcomers?
In fact, this experience is very valuable for me, I have developed personally and felt that I can share my experience of communicating with clients, guide students in the right direction. I heard a lot of uncertainty, fear of taking calls, fear of simply not understanding the client. There were even specific cases that we solved together face-to-face with the client, trying to communicate and take on the first project, which was also a great joy for me.
In fact, you need the faith I mentioned, because uncertainty and fears are everywhere, no matter what you start. If you give in to fear, then all that learning, all those hard skills will just go to waste. I wanted to emphasize that you need to develop soft skills, develop in related fields, such as marketing, graphic design, know the basics of development in order to interact with developers in the future. And to put aside all fears and doubts. Because there are many, many of them. And they are at every step.
It was a great honor for me to be a mentor because I was able to support someone in starting a new job, maybe for someone it is a very dream job or freelance. I am very grateful to you and WAYUP for giving me this experience.
If you're wondering why everything is so difficult, why everything doesn't work out, then you should know that there will be no area where you can start from scratch and get some bonuses right at the beginning. It never happens. And if you give up in one area, it will be the same in another. That is, it will not be a problem of freelancing if you fail. It will be your personal problem.
The most important part of the course
What do you think was the most important part of our course? The thing without which you would feel much worse on freelancing, in practice?
Probably the fact that if I had just gotten the hard skills and that was it, I would have sat there and been happy that I could do it and not known what to do next. It's important that after a very good knowledge base, which is given at WAYUP, there is this practical part that guides you. Without this, perhaps, the course would not be of such value. After all, you take it, you learn, you master something new in order to change something in your life. There must be some kind of motivation or goal. And if it's just a hobby of designing, then fine, it could be. But for me, I was motivated to change my life, to improve its quality. And this practical part was very important to me.
Reflect now on how you see your future. What are your plans for the next 10 years of your life?
This is a difficult question. You asked it at the end of our mentoring, I remember. I'm a person who finds it difficult to plan everything so far in advance, a year at most for me. For some reason, I always set goals for a year. Let's say five. As for design and professional goals, let's say for 5 years (because 10 is too much for me yet), I would probably like to scale up. Not to work for a company or freelance for all 5 years, but to open something of my own. I had thoughts about an agency, and maybe during this time I could either learn or find like-minded people in graphic design, because I'm also very interested in it. We would create products that I would like. I would choose a niche and create something new and beautiful in that direction.
I wish you success on this path, it's a worthy mission. You are going to start your own agency, which is not so difficult when you already have experience in freelancing. Because it's not only about your ability to do design, but also about management. You will succeed 100%. Katia, thank you for your story, for your time, for your experience of both learning and working as a mentor.
And I want to thank you as a teacher and as the founder of WAYUP, such a wonderful place, a community, I would say. For all the knowledge you give, for your support and good organization. And above all, for your humanity and adequacy. Because this is what you feel first when you study. This is all very valuable. I am very grateful to you for inviting me. I am sure that in the future I will be able to develop even more and make my dreams come true.
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