The Successful Success section contains stories of designers who share their real path to success. Interesting interviews that will help you find motivation, learn about the experience of other beginners, and the secrets of professional growth.
Danylo Markov is a 16-year-old schoolboy, a graduate of UX/UI Legend. It's been a year and a half since he completed the course. Now we're going to find out how Danylo started his career in web design, what his first orders were, and how he received them. The interviewer is Andriy Gavrilov.
Danya, hi. This is a section called "Successful Success". Here I invite people who do not have worldwide recognition, but through their work and creativity have achieved results that are extraordinary for that person and can inspire those who are just starting out. Let's learn more about your story, your successes, and try to understand how to get to the results you have. And maybe even more, why not?
Hi, Andriy. It's a pleasure to meet you. So, I'm 16, I've been living in Slovenia for six months now, and I'm originally from Odesa. I'm still in the 10th grade, but because of the war, I switched to the family form of education, so I have a lot of free time. It's roughly the same system as part-time study at the university - I have a session once a semester, and the rest of the time I'm free to do my own thing, my work.
So now you spend most of your time working in design?
Yes, freelancing in design, everything related to it.
Do you live with your parents?
Yes, I live here with my mom.
And how does your mother feel about the fact that design has appeared in your life and it may be replacing school?
At first, like any other mother, she probably didn't take it well. I mean, school should be in the foreground, school should be the head of everything. But I learned how to properly convey my opinion, to explain why I need it and why I do it. I explained why I spent every moment and every second first studying and then working. He told me that it would be very useful for my future, for my career, so that I could build my life the way I wanted.
So you're studying at school, everything is going well, you're not dropping out?
Yes. I'm in the middle of a session right now. I'm in my second semester and for two weeks I attend consultations in Zoom, write tests for each subject. The rest of the time I am free.
Tell us, when did you graduate from UX/UI Legend?
1.5 years ago I completed the UX/UI Legend course, back in 2022, in December. I was 15 years old at the time. In general, I got acquainted with WAYUP back when I was 14, that is, I started designing when the full-scale war began. The course started on my birthday, July 13, and I remember it as if it was a sign of fate.
How it all started
A question that confuses many people, I think. How did you realize at the age of 14 that design was your thing?
Back in 2020, I went to boxing. I had a trainer who started designing. He created advertising layouts and banners for social media. And he said that you can make money on this. I thought: "Oh, that's cool, I can do that too!" He was selling his mentorship at the time and suggested this idea. Of course, I agreed. Because I wanted to make money even then.
You were 12 at the time?
Yes, I was 12 years old.
And a boxing coach became your first design mentor?
Yes, he was.
Okay, let's just record it.
There were two of us, me and another guy. We studied for about two or three months, the coach filmed the lessons, and we went to Zoom. Everything was cool until I faced the first difficulty. There were two types of layouts. We made static banners in Canva using templates - it was very simple. But then some motion effects were added and it was very difficult for me. At one point, I realized that this was not my thing, I didn't want to do it anymore.
My coach tried to help me, he wrote to me on Instagram like: "Danya, where are you, why don't you turn in your homework, why don't you do it, you'll never succeed, don't give up!" But I gave up on it, just stopped doing it and that was it. I returned to my normal life, went to school as usual.
Until I came across a WAYUP ad on YouTube, which said something like, "If you want to change your life, check out our free course 'Web Designer: Explosive Start'. And I was interested in it. It was already when the full-scale war started in 2022.
That's interesting. So this is something that touched you a long time ago, and then about two years passed and you decided to return to design. It's cool, because sometimes people don't know what they want to become at the age of 30. Of course, everything can still change, you still have a long way to go, but it's cool to know at least at this point what you want to do.
All the heroes of the Successful Success column started their journey with the FREE course "Web Designer: Explosive Start" - start it!
Tell us, how did your year and a half after graduation go? What did you start doing after the course, what were those steps? Was it freelancing?
Back then, there was no WAYUP Camp, which now exists and is very convenient. There was a separate course back then, and I just got to the last stream of "Upwork: The Great Game". After this course, I started sending applications to Upwork, but at first, of course, as usual, there was no feedback.
But I started to meet people I knew. For example, I went to a monopoly game called Cashflow, and we sat there and got to know each other. I had to tell them about myself for a minute. I told them that I design websites and that I already had three or four large projects. I did not advertise that these were projects from the UX/UI Legend course. And one guy got interested in me and said to me: "Give me your number, let's cooperate. I need a mobile app." And I had never taken on such big projects before, I didn't know how to do it. But, of course, I agreed.
How to evaluate a project? 100 UAH per screen. Fuckup.
This is the first key right decision! Because this is the moment when you haven't done anything yet, you don't have to be afraid - you have to agree.
Yes, but it was very scary, because you don't know how to do it, all these details. But the most important thing is that I didn't disappear, I was always in touch with him.
And another interesting point, probably the biggest problem that confuses beginners in design is that you don't know how to estimate the amount of work. And you don't know how to set the right price for a project. Of course, this was the case for me, too. I mean, I got this order for a mobile app. Or rather, two mobile app designs. There were 50 screens. At the time, I had a friend who had been working in design for about a year. I asked him how much it could cost. He estimated one screen at 100 UAH. And for the entire project, I said $200. This friend said that there was enough work for two weeks. But this order took me two months to complete. So I later calculated that I had worked for two months for these 200 bucks. And I earned something like $1 an hour. Very little money, I realized later.
Well, you did it pretty quickly: 50 screens in two months.
Yes, that was with prototypes and all the technical stuff.
Then you got this client. Did he pay you the 200 bucks?
Yes, of course. He was a client from Odesa, we met in a cafe several times, made a project together, he showed me how he wanted it, we chose colors and so on. So he paid me. Then he told me that he went to an agency because this mobile app needed to be developed. He was quoted a very high price for the development, about $50,000. He said that he was offered more than $200 for the design, but he was lucky to have found me, and I was lucky too! Because he trusted me, he was my first client.
Nowadays, you think that it's not a lot of money. But in fact, when you have no commercial experience and you have a project, it's already good. Of course, 100 UAH for one screen is not enough. You could easily charge $200 for each screen from this app. But you know this now, and you didn't then. And I think everyone has many such stories: when you did something for nothing.
Small projects
After working with this client, what happened next?
The most interesting thing happened next. Because when you work very cheaply, of course, you don't want to work more for such little money. So I started looking further, continued to send applications to Upwork.
I searched in Telegram communities of Ukrainians, talked to someone who threw in work - design, websites, anything. I had some small projects for two or three months. Of course, you also work there for about one month and get paid $200 for a website.
Once I worked through an intermediary with a client from Australia. I made a design, and he said: "No, it doesn't suit me at all." And the client was of the "I don't know what I like, I don't like anything at all" type. And he can't explain what he wants. And that's it. And that's why the client didn't give me the money at all. And I hadn't taken a subscription yet, I didn't know that this could happen. I trusted him.
Six months later, I was thinking: that's it, I'm tired of not having enough money. I still realized that this was not the end. When I started making advertising banners with a boxing coach, I gave up. And I promised myself at the beginning of my studies at WAYUP that I would not give up until I succeeded, until I had a good job and a good income every month.
But I decided to put my design on hold for now. I had a scooter, and the idea came to me to go to work in delivery. It was summer, it was hot, why not drive around the city a bit, deliver food to people. It would be fun while it was on vacation. I registered the app, and it was my first day at work. I was driving around Odesa all day, even earning more than I could have in design. Until a client wrote to me: "I saw your mobile app, very good work. I need a designer and a front-end developer." It was already interesting.
First serious project: $2500 in 2 months
I didn't even believe it. I asked how they found me. It turned out that I had been recommended by a client for whom I had made a mobile app. That was my very first client, with whom I worked for two months for $200.
I promised myself that I wouldn't charge less than $10 per hour. The client offered to contact me on ZOOM and tell me about the details of the project. It turned out to be the same agency that my client had turned to for development. He showed them my prototype, they were delighted and asked for my contacts. That's how I got to the next level. In two months, I earned $2500 dollars for that project.
So let's say that you invested in marketing with that client for whom you worked for $200 for two months?
Yes, and I earned a little bit more on it.
This is a cool story for our readers. Many people have cases like this, when you invest in something and it seems to you that at the moment it doesn't give you results or enough money. And then a year, six months, three years pass, and something comes back from that client.
Working with an agency
You've earned $2500 in two months. That's great. And this is about the seventh or eighth month after graduation. What happened next?
Then I gained experience, we actively cooperated for 2.5 months. I worked in a team of seven people as a designer. And our boss said that he needed not only a designer but also a front-end developer. The application had to be on FlutterFlow. In the summer, I was studying Webflow, although it's a different field altogether. I told my boss that I knew Webflow. He said, "Well, it's almost the same, it's similar, it's okay, you can practice. I didn't mind, so I agreed to do it. And so I started to build my screens. We had a big team: a backend developer who added the database, a business analyst, a QA specialist who found all the bugs later, and, of course, our boss, with whom we went to daily daily meetings to discuss all the issues in the chat room.
Are you talking about the project for which you earned $2500? So you also learned FlutterFlow during this time?
Yes, yes.
That's cool. What happened after the agency? Or do you continue to work with it?
We keep in touch now, they often come back to me. They make different programs/platforms that need to be packaged in cases on Behance and Upwork. That is, I make a presentation for their work.
Did you get any other clients after that?
I tried to get to Upwork, but something prevented me. I took on a big project, so I didn't have time. Then it happened that my mom came to me and said that she had met a new neighbor who sells expensive dishes. And she needs an online store. My mom told her that I make online stores and I could help her because I was free right now.
And so we went to that neighbor's house, had tea and coffee, and she told me what design she wanted. And I had never made an online store before. It was my first experience. She asked me if I could do it. I said, of course, and showed her my very nice online store, which I also made during the course. But I didn't say that it was my thesis. That was it. We made a deal. I said that I work for 10 dollars an hour, that I don't want to work for less. And I sold this online cookware store for $1500.
Is it design plus everything else?
Yes, I found a designer who was very famous in Ukraine at the time. I wanted to make a Shopify store for her, but at that time there were no such platforms in Ukraine to connect all deliveries and Ukrainian payment systems. So I made this store on the Ukrainian platform Goodtop.
How long did it take you to complete this project?
About a month and a half at most. There were a lot of products, about 200, and I had to add them all by hand.
Slovenia: customers from chats
Next came a new stage: moving to Slovenia. When I arrived, I realized that everything here is much more expensive than in Ukraine. About two to three times more expensive. This includes an apartment, food, and everything else. With my $1,000 in Ukraine, I could live in luxury. And here in Europe, you need to earn two or five times more.
I started looking for a job, found orders in Telegram chats. I developed an online store on Shopify for sales, then another for children's toys. That was the kind of work and development I had in Slovenia.
So now you get all your recommendations from chats? We have quite a similar experience, because I also built myself as a specialist to meet the needs of people and the market. In my case, it was different cases, but the scheme is the same. I respect you for this courage. Because if you don't know how to do something, why not try it? Nothing bad will happen. The worst thing that happened to you was when you worked for two months for 100 UAH per screen. But it gave you experience.
Freelancing is the only way to grow
You work with clients on a freelance basis. Do you think freelancing is your way of life and development? Or do you want something more stable?
Yes, I think that freelancing is definitely something that suits me very well. And when I started taking courses, I wasn't sure about it. And then, as I developed, I realized that it's very cool: when you're not tied to any part of the world, you can work from any country you want. And it's cool that you can work even on the road or from a cafe. You don't have to come somewhere every day on schedule and do what you're told. Of course, when you work with clients, you do the task that you agree to do. But you do it because you want to do it.
If you want to change something, freelancing gives you much more opportunities to change your life. You can travel around the world - I really like this idea: I've watched a lot of travel videos, and I think you can buy a house on wheels and travel around the world. First in Europe, then in America. Enjoy all this beauty and work in parallel.
Yes, this is available to the carriers of our profession. It's cool that you are passionate about it. You're only 16, and you have enough time to change. I hope that you will become an inspiration for many people who are also 16 or 17 years old now.
When to go to Upwork
You said that you left Ukraine with about $1,000 in earnings. And now in Slovenia, how much do you manage to earn on average per month?
On average, I still keep this level - about $1000, sometimes a little more - $1200-$1300. I think I can grow if I join Upwork. I have a profile, and I've started to send applications more actively.
Look, at the moment, we have already published an interview with Katya Boyko, who joined Upwork from the very first days. The point is that she sent 150 applications in three weeks and got four clients. After this interview, it becomes clear why some people fail on Upwork - because they have too few applications and they are not personalized. This is basically the whole secret.
Design as a lifestyle
You are now in Slovenia. It's a completely different environment, not like in Ukraine. Does design become a constant companion for you, a lifestyle wherever you are?
This is a philosophical question. I think so. It's not just a job for me, even though it takes up most of my time. And it's up to you to choose whether it's a job you hate or a job you customize the way you want. I like this. I think it's very cool when you can work remotely and travel.
Listening to you and understanding your story, I can say what I have emphasized many times: your activity and courage determine the level, degree and speed of your success in the beginning and afterwards.
You definitely earned more than $10,000 during this time after the course. Actually, not every job will allow you to do that, especially at the age of 16. You made uncomfortable decisions, went into something new. If someone thinks that a course or another YouTube video will change everything, it doesn't work that way. Growth will only come through your own decisions, through the new, through the incomprehensible.
Advice for 16-year-olds and beyond
Danya, what would you wish to people who are probably your age, if they are interested in design?
I wish them to never give up, to believe in themselves, that everything is possible. As long as you think that something will not work out, it will not. You need to self-program yourself: that you are already a cool designer, that you have cool projects, that you live the life you want. It's probably about visualization and motivation. You need to imagine what you want to become in the future: in 5 years or 10 years. Where you want to be, what country you want to live in. All these thoughts will motivate you from the depths of your soul. It will keep you going, especially in difficult times.
If you haven't taken the Web Designer: Explosive Start yet, you have the opportunity to see Danya as a mentor on the course. A few weeks ago he joined our team. You can see what kind of person Danya is, how he treats himself, his work, and difficulties. It's great that we can attract people with such values and approach to life to our team. These people have been guiding our students from the very beginning, even in the free courses.
Danya, thank you, and I wish you to reach your first $2000-$3000 dollars a month this year. Why not?
Thank you, and I wish you success and that you succeed!